1 00:00:22,739 --> 00:00:25,512 ♪♪ Theme music playing... 2 00:00:25,569 --> 00:00:29,168 ♪♪ 3 00:00:29,225 --> 00:00:32,731 ♪♪ 4 00:01:38,270 --> 00:01:43,066 ♪♪ *MINDHUNTER* Season 01 Episode 08 Title: "Episode #1.8" 5 00:02:00,257 --> 00:02:01,909 "Deviant. 6 00:02:02,218 --> 00:02:03,911 Pyromania. 7 00:02:04,220 --> 00:02:05,621 Torture. 8 00:02:05,948 --> 00:02:06,979 Mutilation." 9 00:02:07,056 --> 00:02:09,616 I understand what you're trying to do, and I appreciate it. 10 00:02:09,702 --> 00:02:12,463 Using Career Week to discuss early intervention, it's a great idea. 11 00:02:12,540 --> 00:02:15,174 I had been thinking about how we educate kids when you called. 12 00:02:15,251 --> 00:02:19,093 And coming from the FBI, it is a powerful statement. 13 00:02:19,402 --> 00:02:23,097 But how do I get it across if I can't use these words? 14 00:02:28,244 --> 00:02:29,728 "Mutilation." 15 00:02:29,954 --> 00:02:33,192 If you use that, I guarantee you that at least one of them, 16 00:02:33,269 --> 00:02:36,946 Jenny Cromer, Michael Stahl, these are confident, curious children. 17 00:02:37,023 --> 00:02:39,428 They will ask you what "mutilation" means. 18 00:02:39,505 --> 00:02:42,658 - And I can describe it, and specifically... - And then... 19 00:02:42,967 --> 00:02:44,827 a few of them will go home, 20 00:02:44,927 --> 00:02:46,352 they'll have nightmares, 21 00:02:46,429 --> 00:02:48,499 and tomorrow I'll be fielding calls from parents 22 00:02:48,576 --> 00:02:49,750 who will be concerned... 23 00:02:49,827 --> 00:02:52,566 - Parents should be discussing this, too. - Absolutely. 24 00:02:52,643 --> 00:02:56,317 And if I had the time to build a foundation for their understanding, 25 00:02:56,379 --> 00:02:58,333 I'd be on board. 26 00:02:59,859 --> 00:03:01,510 So no "torture." 27 00:03:02,111 --> 00:03:03,804 Could I say "hurting"? 28 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:05,307 "Hurting" animals? 29 00:03:05,384 --> 00:03:08,100 What about "being mean" to animals? 30 00:03:10,828 --> 00:03:12,732 You really think that "pyromania" is too much? 31 00:03:12,809 --> 00:03:15,359 - My students will not know what that is. - "Arson"? 32 00:03:15,436 --> 00:03:16,674 Mm-mm. 33 00:03:16,751 --> 00:03:20,156 - "Deviant"? - They will not know what that is. 34 00:03:20,233 --> 00:03:22,344 Even if I used it in context? 35 00:03:22,402 --> 00:03:23,472 It's harsh. 36 00:03:23,549 --> 00:03:26,118 We need to prepare them for the world, yes. 37 00:03:26,260 --> 00:03:29,580 But we also need to protect them from it. 38 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,623 Guess I could say... 39 00:03:32,933 --> 00:03:34,459 "disturbing." 40 00:03:36,270 --> 00:03:38,046 Listen, Agent Ford. 41 00:03:38,647 --> 00:03:40,466 Show them your badge. 42 00:03:41,067 --> 00:03:42,168 They'll be thrilled. 43 00:03:45,988 --> 00:03:50,726 My job at the FBI is to study people who exhibit disturbing behavior. 44 00:03:50,868 --> 00:03:52,918 If I can classify this behavior, 45 00:03:52,995 --> 00:03:56,815 I can help the police catch these people when they commit a crime. 46 00:03:57,374 --> 00:03:59,610 But lately I've been asking myself: 47 00:03:59,919 --> 00:04:04,490 can we stop these people from becoming disturbing in the first place? 48 00:04:05,674 --> 00:04:07,618 That's where you come in. 49 00:04:07,843 --> 00:04:10,185 By your age, we can start seeing the signs. 50 00:04:10,262 --> 00:04:12,917 In this whole classroom, statistically speaking, 51 00:04:12,994 --> 00:04:16,668 disturbing behavior would show up in about one of you. 52 00:04:16,769 --> 00:04:20,112 Say you have a friend who likes lighting fires. 53 00:04:20,189 --> 00:04:24,843 I mean, deliberately setting things on fire, like toys or trash. 54 00:04:25,486 --> 00:04:27,786 Another sign that your friend is disturbed, 55 00:04:27,863 --> 00:04:29,642 is if he shows a lack of remorse. 56 00:04:31,784 --> 00:04:36,271 That is, if he's done something wrong, he doesn't feel bad about it. 57 00:04:37,164 --> 00:04:40,049 - Yes. - Are only boys disturbed? 58 00:04:40,126 --> 00:04:42,446 Perhaps I should be saying he or she, 59 00:04:42,523 --> 00:04:46,365 but yes, actually, it is mostly males who are disturbed. 60 00:04:46,465 --> 00:04:47,707 Sorry, guys. 61 00:04:49,260 --> 00:04:52,162 Another thing you should be aware of at your age 62 00:04:52,346 --> 00:04:53,582 is the way we treat animals. 63 00:04:53,659 --> 00:04:56,001 Now animals are nice to us, so we should be nice back. 64 00:04:56,078 --> 00:05:01,403 But say you have a friend who is being mean to an animal. 65 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,466 Very mean. You should take note of that. 66 00:05:04,645 --> 00:05:05,657 Yes. 67 00:05:05,734 --> 00:05:07,847 My brother throws rocks at our dog. 68 00:05:07,924 --> 00:05:11,600 Well, that doesn't sound very nice, but let me ask you: 69 00:05:11,677 --> 00:05:14,270 are they big rocks or little rocks? 70 00:05:14,347 --> 00:05:18,003 - Mm... medium rocks. - Okay. 71 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,984 The kind of behavior towards animals that I'm talking about is, um... 72 00:05:22,626 --> 00:05:24,403 forcible... 73 00:05:24,545 --> 00:05:28,156 It's not just about being mean to animals, it's... 74 00:05:28,632 --> 00:05:31,745 It's about hurting the animal, and you'll know when that's happening 75 00:05:31,822 --> 00:05:35,789 because an animal will let you know when it is being hurt. 76 00:05:38,559 --> 00:05:43,007 In any case, if you see this, you should tell a teacher, or your mom, or your dad. 77 00:05:43,084 --> 00:05:48,283 The idea is that you stop your friend, who is a disturbing kid, 78 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,973 from becoming a disturbing adult, 79 00:05:51,050 --> 00:05:55,309 because one day he may start being mean to people. 80 00:05:56,702 --> 00:05:58,102 So... 81 00:06:01,916 --> 00:06:03,569 Who wants to see my badge? 82 00:06:07,588 --> 00:06:09,680 It means so much to these students 83 00:06:09,757 --> 00:06:11,911 that someone like yourself would take an interest. 84 00:06:11,988 --> 00:06:15,078 Sure, that was great. They're very smart. 85 00:06:15,220 --> 00:06:18,040 Top standardized test scores in the district. 86 00:06:18,349 --> 00:06:20,836 Well, if you want to do any more outreach, just let me know. 87 00:06:20,913 --> 00:06:23,797 Don't say that, I'll hold you to it. Thanks again. 88 00:06:23,874 --> 00:06:25,212 Thank you. 89 00:06:25,564 --> 00:06:27,739 Sorry. Bye. 90 00:06:27,816 --> 00:06:29,143 Mr. Ford? 91 00:06:29,283 --> 00:06:30,284 Holden. 92 00:06:30,361 --> 00:06:32,514 I'm Janet Ebner. I teach fourth grade here. 93 00:06:32,591 --> 00:06:34,872 - May I have a moment? - Sure. 94 00:06:34,949 --> 00:06:37,394 I know you weren't here today to talk to us, 95 00:06:37,471 --> 00:06:41,355 but I've heard about some behavior that I'd classify as disturbing. 96 00:06:41,538 --> 00:06:42,462 Okay. 97 00:06:42,539 --> 00:06:46,735 Well, odd at the very least, but I believe my instincts are good. 98 00:06:46,835 --> 00:06:48,552 It all starts with instinct. 99 00:06:48,629 --> 00:06:50,137 And I'm not the only one. 100 00:06:50,214 --> 00:06:52,159 Some of the other teachers are concerned, 101 00:06:52,236 --> 00:06:54,662 several parents, certain members of the school board. 102 00:06:54,739 --> 00:06:56,661 We even took it to the local police. 103 00:06:57,137 --> 00:06:58,537 What is it? 104 00:06:59,765 --> 00:07:02,376 Let's go to the staff room. This way. 105 00:07:05,771 --> 00:07:07,172 Thank you. 106 00:07:09,692 --> 00:07:12,638 - He has a thing for tickling. - Who does? 107 00:07:12,715 --> 00:07:15,931 Principal Wade, Roger, tickles the children. 108 00:07:16,573 --> 00:07:18,684 - Where? - In his office. 109 00:07:19,118 --> 00:07:20,688 I mean, where on the body? 110 00:07:20,765 --> 00:07:21,877 Their feet. 111 00:07:21,954 --> 00:07:24,858 Sometimes a child will go to his office for disciplinary reasons, 112 00:07:24,935 --> 00:07:26,068 that's when it happens. 113 00:07:26,145 --> 00:07:27,424 Is it punishment? 114 00:07:27,501 --> 00:07:29,655 I think it's supposed to mitigate the punishment, 115 00:07:29,732 --> 00:07:31,530 but then he gives them money. 116 00:07:31,755 --> 00:07:33,222 - For what? - Nickels. 117 00:07:33,299 --> 00:07:36,618 He gives them nickels if they can withstand the tickling. 118 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:38,537 Okay, well... 119 00:07:38,929 --> 00:07:40,580 that is odd. 120 00:07:40,806 --> 00:07:44,461 - It's completely inappropriate. - Has anybody talked with him? 121 00:07:44,538 --> 00:07:47,194 The board questioned him, nothing happened. 122 00:07:47,271 --> 00:07:49,091 But somebody took it to the police? 123 00:07:49,168 --> 00:07:51,573 I did, at the urging of some parents. 124 00:07:51,650 --> 00:07:54,847 - Parents asked you to go to the police? - I talked to a Detective Barr. 125 00:07:54,924 --> 00:07:57,496 He said they'd look into it, write something up. 126 00:07:57,573 --> 00:07:58,622 That was five months ago. 127 00:07:58,699 --> 00:08:01,645 - Have you seen a report? - No, it's like the whole thing went away. 128 00:08:01,722 --> 00:08:03,645 Maybe you could check in with him. 129 00:08:04,872 --> 00:08:06,633 This isn't exactly my area. 130 00:08:06,875 --> 00:08:09,320 This is what you were talking about. 131 00:08:09,397 --> 00:08:12,197 At least by our definition at the Behavioral Science Unit, 132 00:08:12,274 --> 00:08:14,408 tickling is not considered deviant behavior. 133 00:08:14,485 --> 00:08:16,616 Deviant? You said "disturbing." 134 00:08:17,301 --> 00:08:20,328 Whatever's going on here is obviously nuanced. 135 00:08:20,429 --> 00:08:23,498 I'd have to witness it or at least get his version. 136 00:08:23,891 --> 00:08:26,752 - Do you have children? - Not yet. 137 00:08:27,061 --> 00:08:29,778 Imagine one of those seven-year-olds is yours. 138 00:08:29,855 --> 00:08:34,074 Principal Wade has her take off her shoes and socks so that he can tickle her feet. 139 00:08:34,151 --> 00:08:37,596 Wouldn't you be worried one day he'd ask her to take something else off? 140 00:08:38,655 --> 00:08:40,432 Put a call in, please? 141 00:08:58,133 --> 00:09:01,077 ♪♪ Rock music playing on car stereo... 142 00:09:02,554 --> 00:09:04,498 ♪ Don't be surprised ♪ 143 00:09:04,723 --> 00:09:07,876 ♪ Their bodies move by habit Look in their eyes ♪ 144 00:09:09,728 --> 00:09:11,298 ♪ Nothing is real ♪ 145 00:09:11,375 --> 00:09:13,488 Where were you? I was worried. 146 00:09:13,565 --> 00:09:17,344 Sorry, my car's in the shop. I had to wait for Patrick to give me a ride. 147 00:09:17,421 --> 00:09:21,181 - Patrick? - Yeah, you know, from my psych class. 148 00:09:30,416 --> 00:09:31,944 These used to be cold. 149 00:09:32,021 --> 00:09:34,051 - Put ice in it. - Gross. 150 00:09:34,128 --> 00:09:36,345 Here, I'll stick it in the freezer. 151 00:09:36,422 --> 00:09:38,615 Remember the last time you did that? 152 00:09:38,882 --> 00:09:40,210 Okay, Dad. 153 00:09:41,635 --> 00:09:43,161 I would've picked you up. 154 00:09:43,345 --> 00:09:46,748 At school? No, it's way too far out of your way. 155 00:09:47,766 --> 00:09:49,626 So what happened to your car? 156 00:09:49,852 --> 00:09:52,402 Uh... maintenance. 157 00:09:52,479 --> 00:09:55,507 You, Debbie Mitford, took your car in for maintenance? 158 00:09:55,691 --> 00:09:58,802 I've kind of been forgetting to put oil in it. 159 00:09:59,319 --> 00:10:00,720 You seized your engine? 160 00:10:01,071 --> 00:10:02,597 Something like that. 161 00:10:03,073 --> 00:10:05,978 The guys at the shop gave me enough grief, so you don't have to. 162 00:10:06,055 --> 00:10:07,855 I don't think I can not give you grief. 163 00:10:07,932 --> 00:10:10,170 My dad used to remind me to change my oil. 164 00:10:10,247 --> 00:10:11,525 Maybe you could do the same. 165 00:10:11,602 --> 00:10:13,316 Maybe get Patrick to remind you. 166 00:10:13,393 --> 00:10:15,195 You are so stupid. 167 00:10:15,272 --> 00:10:17,153 - Am I? - Yes. 168 00:10:18,422 --> 00:10:20,492 Why is it so hard to stay mad at you? 169 00:10:20,569 --> 00:10:22,117 I don't know. 170 00:10:23,347 --> 00:10:25,245 Nickels for tickles. 171 00:10:25,340 --> 00:10:28,939 - You don't think it's harmless fun? - No, it's creepy and disgusting. 172 00:10:29,016 --> 00:10:31,536 I would not want any principal touching my kid's feet. 173 00:10:31,810 --> 00:10:35,153 He seems like a good guy. And he's been great for that school. 174 00:10:35,230 --> 00:10:36,929 Did the superintendent talk to him? 175 00:10:37,203 --> 00:10:38,734 I don't know. I should ask. 176 00:10:40,759 --> 00:10:43,577 My cousin had this first grade teacher who would give her a sticker 177 00:10:43,634 --> 00:10:46,706 if she'd let him pinch her cheek. He did it to all the girls. 178 00:10:46,783 --> 00:10:50,105 It only came out years later that he was pinching some of them in other places. 179 00:10:50,182 --> 00:10:52,254 - Was he ever caught? - No. 180 00:10:52,331 --> 00:10:54,943 She didn't find out until her classmates started comparing notes 181 00:10:55,020 --> 00:10:56,401 at a high school reunion. 182 00:10:56,752 --> 00:10:58,933 Kids won't talk about that stuff when they're little. 183 00:10:59,004 --> 00:11:01,909 They assume the adult is right, especially if he's an authority figure. 184 00:11:01,986 --> 00:11:03,911 I wonder how many girls he did that to. 185 00:11:03,988 --> 00:11:06,768 Well, he was a teacher for 40 years. 186 00:11:06,845 --> 00:11:08,624 I can't believe it didn't come out. 187 00:11:08,701 --> 00:11:11,210 There were whispers, but by that point he was retired. 188 00:11:11,287 --> 00:11:13,501 It's escalating behavior... 189 00:11:13,685 --> 00:11:16,046 just like with Brudos and Roger. 190 00:11:20,025 --> 00:11:24,536 Almost like they can't help themselves. They've got this... compulsion. 191 00:11:24,613 --> 00:11:27,557 You think Roger is in any way similar to Brudos? 192 00:11:28,242 --> 00:11:30,062 Both of them sure like these. 193 00:11:30,139 --> 00:11:32,437 Looks like somebody else does, too. 194 00:11:34,081 --> 00:11:36,233 I have to go back to Oregon this week. 195 00:11:36,343 --> 00:11:39,277 Nine more rounds with Butterball Brudos. 196 00:11:42,089 --> 00:11:43,698 Listen... 197 00:11:43,882 --> 00:11:46,409 if you need a ride home from school again, 198 00:11:47,427 --> 00:11:48,827 call me. 199 00:11:50,347 --> 00:11:51,747 Okay. 200 00:12:02,526 --> 00:12:04,386 Excuse me, Officer. 201 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,394 - Can I help you? - Know Detective Barr? 202 00:12:10,471 --> 00:12:13,689 Staff politics. Women like that are always looking for a pot to stir. 203 00:12:13,766 --> 00:12:15,587 She seemed genuinely concerned. 204 00:12:15,664 --> 00:12:19,903 - She wasn't married, as I remember. - What does that have to do with it? 205 00:12:19,980 --> 00:12:21,486 She's got extra energy. 206 00:12:21,712 --> 00:12:23,573 Apparently, some parents are concerned, too. 207 00:12:23,650 --> 00:12:27,286 - She said that, but I never saw them. - Did you follow up at all? 208 00:12:27,363 --> 00:12:30,080 There's no victim. No one's pressing charges. 209 00:12:30,157 --> 00:12:31,478 He's touching kids. 210 00:12:31,555 --> 00:12:32,821 Giving them money for it. 211 00:12:32,879 --> 00:12:36,543 He's tickling kids, that's not a crime. 212 00:12:36,685 --> 00:12:39,089 I can't arrest him unless he does something illegal. 213 00:12:39,166 --> 00:12:43,216 I explained this to Ms. Ebner, I shouldn't have to explain it to the FBI. 214 00:12:43,358 --> 00:12:46,261 Unless you're gonna start predicting what people do. 215 00:12:47,738 --> 00:12:49,597 May I see the report? 216 00:12:51,486 --> 00:12:54,194 - Why am I reading this? - I thought we might look into it. 217 00:12:54,252 --> 00:12:55,293 A foot tickler? 218 00:12:55,370 --> 00:12:58,255 It could be a form of podophilia... like Brudos. 219 00:12:58,332 --> 00:13:00,527 This guy's a grade school principal with no record. 220 00:13:00,604 --> 00:13:02,904 People are concerned. No one will help them. 221 00:13:02,981 --> 00:13:04,946 - Just one teacher. - No. 222 00:13:05,122 --> 00:13:06,408 I talked to the superintendent. 223 00:13:06,485 --> 00:13:08,827 Some members of the school board have been complaining. 224 00:13:09,357 --> 00:13:11,726 Holden, we have a stack of applications to review. 225 00:13:11,803 --> 00:13:13,498 I don't see your stack getting shorter. 226 00:13:13,575 --> 00:13:16,668 - I looked at them, all "nos." - No as in, don't even interview? 227 00:13:16,745 --> 00:13:19,067 - They're greenhorns. - So were you. 228 00:13:19,144 --> 00:13:21,569 We mainly need someone to take over transcribing. 229 00:13:21,646 --> 00:13:23,592 They're all gunning to talk to lust murderers. 230 00:13:23,669 --> 00:13:25,717 They bring nothing to the table. 231 00:13:26,026 --> 00:13:27,426 Tell Wendy. 232 00:13:28,236 --> 00:13:29,763 Okay. 233 00:13:34,826 --> 00:13:36,269 How's this? 234 00:13:42,459 --> 00:13:44,363 Want me to take us to the airport tomorrow? 235 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,512 I decided last night. I'm not going. 236 00:13:47,589 --> 00:13:49,848 - What? - I'm not going back to Oregon. 237 00:13:49,925 --> 00:13:52,015 You expect me to interview Brudos alone? 238 00:13:52,073 --> 00:13:53,143 If you want. 239 00:13:53,220 --> 00:13:55,645 But we were just getting him to open up. 240 00:13:55,722 --> 00:13:57,042 That's why I'm not going. 241 00:13:57,119 --> 00:13:58,919 When did you get so fragile? 242 00:14:00,852 --> 00:14:03,528 Bill... I do not want to do this alone. 243 00:14:03,605 --> 00:14:06,343 So don't. We have a ton of material from last time. 244 00:14:06,420 --> 00:14:07,490 Not nearly enough. 245 00:14:07,567 --> 00:14:10,845 - I just came up with a whole new strategy. - Go for it. 246 00:14:11,696 --> 00:14:13,640 You're really not coming. 247 00:14:14,074 --> 00:14:15,683 I'm really not coming. 248 00:14:16,284 --> 00:14:20,688 Okay. Then I'll just show him that one of us isn't a big, fat, fucking pussy. 249 00:14:21,039 --> 00:14:23,775 Yeah. Show him that. 250 00:14:53,071 --> 00:14:54,471 Hi. 251 00:14:56,074 --> 00:14:58,228 - Something wrong? - I can't close my recorder. 252 00:14:58,305 --> 00:14:59,769 Give it to me. 253 00:15:00,287 --> 00:15:01,729 Thank you. 254 00:15:02,164 --> 00:15:03,982 I'm pretty handy. 255 00:15:04,750 --> 00:15:09,511 I'm one of the only... inmates 256 00:15:09,588 --> 00:15:12,006 they allow in hobby shop. 257 00:15:12,064 --> 00:15:13,181 Really? 258 00:15:13,258 --> 00:15:16,995 Yeah. I can use scissors under supervision. 259 00:15:17,763 --> 00:15:19,396 Leather boring tools. 260 00:15:19,473 --> 00:15:21,877 The parole board should really take that into account. 261 00:15:21,954 --> 00:15:24,212 - And we're live. - Okay. 262 00:15:24,289 --> 00:15:26,296 So, uh, today... 263 00:15:26,646 --> 00:15:29,424 - I'd like to pick up with things... - Where's Bill? 264 00:15:30,567 --> 00:15:32,971 - He couldn't be here this time. - Did I scare him off? 265 00:15:33,048 --> 00:15:34,048 No. Uh... 266 00:15:34,112 --> 00:15:36,266 We're doing some hiring back at the office. 267 00:15:36,343 --> 00:15:38,099 Fresh meat for the mill? 268 00:15:38,825 --> 00:15:40,340 That's exactly right. 269 00:15:43,747 --> 00:15:45,398 Bill, I miss you. 270 00:15:45,475 --> 00:15:47,275 Please come back. 271 00:15:50,212 --> 00:15:52,315 Okay. I'd like to take it from the murder 272 00:15:52,373 --> 00:15:54,490 - of the second girl, Jane Weber. - Okay. 273 00:15:54,548 --> 00:15:57,037 Her car broke down on the highway, you pulled over. 274 00:15:57,114 --> 00:15:59,704 - Yeah, helped her out. - How did you help her? 275 00:15:59,805 --> 00:16:02,457 Said, "Let's go home, we'll call a mechanic." 276 00:16:02,641 --> 00:16:04,294 - Home to your house? - Yeah. 277 00:16:04,371 --> 00:16:07,879 - Did you call the mechanic? - Didn't get that far. 278 00:16:07,937 --> 00:16:08,945 Why not? 279 00:16:09,022 --> 00:16:11,424 She was interested in my photography. 280 00:16:12,442 --> 00:16:15,094 - Did she also want to be a model? - Yeah. 281 00:16:15,237 --> 00:16:17,557 Funny how all these girls you met wanted that. 282 00:16:17,634 --> 00:16:20,058 Women like men to pay attention to 'em. 283 00:16:20,325 --> 00:16:21,976 So, did you... 284 00:16:22,536 --> 00:16:25,086 - Invited her to the garage. - Mm-hmm. 285 00:16:25,163 --> 00:16:27,067 - Took some photos... - What kind of photos? 286 00:16:27,144 --> 00:16:28,900 You know, headshots. 287 00:16:29,793 --> 00:16:31,738 Right. And after these headshots... 288 00:16:31,815 --> 00:16:33,988 She decided to walk home. 289 00:16:34,548 --> 00:16:36,368 And that's the last you saw of her. 290 00:16:36,445 --> 00:16:38,826 Last anyone saw of her, as far as I remember. 291 00:16:39,219 --> 00:16:42,791 Her body was found in the Willamette River tied to an auto transmission 292 00:16:42,868 --> 00:16:44,415 to weigh it down. 293 00:16:44,724 --> 00:16:47,045 The transmission was traced back to a car that you owned. 294 00:16:47,122 --> 00:16:48,586 Yeah, I know. 295 00:16:50,313 --> 00:16:51,756 You have any smokes? 296 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:53,841 Yeah. 297 00:16:54,317 --> 00:16:56,805 So was that all part of the police plot? 298 00:16:56,882 --> 00:16:58,263 Oh, yeah. 299 00:16:58,363 --> 00:17:02,183 The transmission, the photos, the foot... all of it. 300 00:17:04,327 --> 00:17:05,812 Well... 301 00:17:06,746 --> 00:17:09,023 someone killed those girls. 302 00:17:09,499 --> 00:17:12,235 Yeah, I know. I have a whole theory about that. 303 00:17:12,419 --> 00:17:13,820 Really? 304 00:17:13,962 --> 00:17:14,990 Let's hear it. 305 00:17:15,067 --> 00:17:19,140 Well... these girls are disappearing. 306 00:17:19,217 --> 00:17:21,705 Body parts showing up in the river. Police get involved. 307 00:17:21,782 --> 00:17:25,123 The killer realizes things are heating up and splits. 308 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:30,068 Probably chopping up girls in Seattle, Idaho, Canada, as we speak. 309 00:17:30,145 --> 00:17:32,445 Meanwhile, they need to blame someone. 310 00:17:32,522 --> 00:17:34,509 They catch me sniffing around some coeds. 311 00:17:34,586 --> 00:17:36,241 I'm not saying I'm an angel. 312 00:17:36,318 --> 00:17:38,346 Search my house, find a few pairs of shoes, 313 00:17:38,423 --> 00:17:41,264 decide I'm their fall guy. 314 00:17:41,865 --> 00:17:45,518 Everyone feels safe, DA gets re-elected, yada yada yada. 315 00:17:46,244 --> 00:17:49,399 It is a pretty big coincidence that you met a couple of the girls 316 00:17:49,476 --> 00:17:50,650 that became his victims. 317 00:17:50,727 --> 00:17:52,275 Huge coincidence. 318 00:17:54,044 --> 00:17:57,530 Do you think that he... planned his attacks? 319 00:18:00,258 --> 00:18:03,536 Maybe the first one fell into his lap, 320 00:18:03,678 --> 00:18:07,876 but then maybe after that, he got a taste for it. 321 00:18:07,953 --> 00:18:10,483 Oh. Now that's interesting. 322 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,755 Because there were no photos of the first girl, right? 323 00:18:15,148 --> 00:18:18,384 But the other three, it was like he was prepared. 324 00:18:19,861 --> 00:18:23,663 Do you think that even before the first one, 325 00:18:23,740 --> 00:18:26,645 he fantasized about murdering a woman? 326 00:18:26,722 --> 00:18:28,186 Definitely. 327 00:18:29,454 --> 00:18:31,606 What do you think he fantasized about? 328 00:18:32,874 --> 00:18:35,985 Choking them, chopping them up, all that stuff they said I did. 329 00:18:36,503 --> 00:18:40,555 So the murders were just an extension of thoughts he already had, 330 00:18:40,632 --> 00:18:41,890 maybe for a long time. 331 00:18:41,967 --> 00:18:44,537 You'd have to think about it pretty hard to go through with it. 332 00:18:44,614 --> 00:18:47,520 You'd have to be... driven. 333 00:18:47,597 --> 00:18:49,540 You mean like, out of control? 334 00:18:49,724 --> 00:18:53,797 Maybe his real life was out of control, but his fantasy life was... 335 00:18:53,874 --> 00:18:57,322 A... place where he could feel powerful. 336 00:18:57,399 --> 00:18:59,550 - Makes sense. - But then why... 337 00:19:01,111 --> 00:19:02,637 For example... 338 00:19:03,655 --> 00:19:05,809 Laura Sullivan was hit from behind. 339 00:19:05,886 --> 00:19:08,810 Jane Weber was choked from behind. 340 00:19:09,369 --> 00:19:11,396 Why would he do it that way? 341 00:19:13,039 --> 00:19:15,191 Didn't want them looking at him? 342 00:19:15,959 --> 00:19:17,360 Why not? 343 00:19:17,877 --> 00:19:21,304 It might not have been about watching them die. 344 00:19:21,381 --> 00:19:24,786 You know, because then he would have tortured them, right? 345 00:19:24,863 --> 00:19:28,830 It might just been about having them quiet. 346 00:19:30,223 --> 00:19:33,044 So that he could play with them? 347 00:19:33,121 --> 00:19:36,587 Like you'd play with a doll? 348 00:19:36,688 --> 00:19:40,365 Yeah, there were all these photos of 'em in different positions. 349 00:19:40,442 --> 00:19:42,116 - Have intercourse with them? - Sure. 350 00:19:42,193 --> 00:19:44,973 But then he played with some of them before they died, as well. 351 00:19:45,050 --> 00:19:49,310 Kathy Schmidt was photographed in a piece of lingerie that was not hers. 352 00:19:49,387 --> 00:19:51,436 Oh, she probably liked that. 353 00:19:51,578 --> 00:19:54,107 Well, she was kidnapped from a parking garage. 354 00:19:54,184 --> 00:19:56,234 How do you know she was kidnapped? 355 00:19:56,311 --> 00:19:58,317 You think she went willingly? 356 00:19:59,252 --> 00:20:01,863 All I'm saying is, all the women I meet... 357 00:20:02,047 --> 00:20:03,573 Want to be models. 358 00:20:04,466 --> 00:20:08,079 So do you think that with Kathy Schmidt it was consensual, 359 00:20:08,156 --> 00:20:11,622 she didn't realize that she was going to be killed? 360 00:20:12,265 --> 00:20:14,377 She may have been getting the feeling, you know. 361 00:20:14,454 --> 00:20:17,777 I mean, he may have made it clear at a certain point 362 00:20:17,854 --> 00:20:21,757 that she needed to take the pictures if she wanted him to let her go. 363 00:20:22,484 --> 00:20:24,927 - She was playing along. - Yeah. 364 00:20:26,071 --> 00:20:28,222 Do you think the killer enjoyed that, too? 365 00:20:28,823 --> 00:20:31,434 He might've thought that's what you get. 366 00:20:31,511 --> 00:20:35,062 That's what you get when you want to be a model? 367 00:20:35,580 --> 00:20:38,107 When you want people to look at you. 368 00:20:41,961 --> 00:20:45,198 Do you think that the killer found it exciting to, uh... 369 00:20:45,632 --> 00:20:49,037 get some of that control back in his real life? 370 00:20:49,114 --> 00:20:50,226 Oh, yeah. 371 00:20:50,303 --> 00:20:52,413 Probably made him want more. 372 00:20:53,389 --> 00:20:55,585 After he got a taste for it, like you said. 373 00:20:55,662 --> 00:20:57,585 After he got a taste. 374 00:20:58,978 --> 00:21:02,548 I guess... we all have fantasies, don't we? 375 00:21:02,982 --> 00:21:05,512 I can remember my first fantasy of girls. 376 00:21:07,048 --> 00:21:08,386 What, um... 377 00:21:10,156 --> 00:21:11,768 What was your first fantasy? 378 00:21:11,845 --> 00:21:13,935 Oh... 379 00:21:14,869 --> 00:21:17,605 Must have been... nine or ten. 380 00:21:19,249 --> 00:21:22,527 There was a woman in a tunnel. I'd trapped her there. 381 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,615 She was like this white shape in the darkness. 382 00:21:27,966 --> 00:21:29,951 I made her do things. 383 00:21:30,426 --> 00:21:33,164 At that point, there wasn't even anything sexual about it. 384 00:21:33,241 --> 00:21:35,248 I just remember her... 385 00:21:35,849 --> 00:21:40,419 begging for... mercy. 386 00:21:43,022 --> 00:21:45,299 Do you still have fantasies, Jerry? 387 00:21:48,653 --> 00:21:50,555 No. I don't. 388 00:21:51,531 --> 00:21:53,724 Tell the parole board that. 389 00:21:58,371 --> 00:22:00,441 Day three, he takes the stand. 390 00:22:00,518 --> 00:22:02,340 Now we knew he was lying, 391 00:22:02,417 --> 00:22:04,175 but it could've gone either way 392 00:22:04,252 --> 00:22:06,531 because he had two other Klansmen to back him up. 393 00:22:06,608 --> 00:22:08,992 So after lunch, I waited for cross-examination. 394 00:22:09,069 --> 00:22:11,057 I slide right behind his girlfriend. 395 00:22:11,134 --> 00:22:13,371 I drape my arm across the back of her bench, 396 00:22:13,448 --> 00:22:15,663 I lean in real close, so, uh... 397 00:22:19,017 --> 00:22:20,525 The guy's eyes bug out. 398 00:22:20,602 --> 00:22:23,402 He starts stammering, he comes completely unglued, 399 00:22:23,479 --> 00:22:25,571 - and we get a conviction. - Amazing. 400 00:22:25,648 --> 00:22:28,136 - Thirteen years. - That is great. 401 00:22:28,213 --> 00:22:29,927 Great stories, Jim. 402 00:22:30,153 --> 00:22:31,786 So nice to meet you. 403 00:22:31,863 --> 00:22:33,808 Thanks for coming all the way up from Atlanta. 404 00:22:33,885 --> 00:22:35,706 Word is out y'all are onto something big. 405 00:22:35,783 --> 00:22:39,027 - I couldn't wait to see for myself. - I hope we lived up to the hype. 406 00:22:39,085 --> 00:22:41,008 Oh, you surpassed it. 407 00:22:41,956 --> 00:22:44,986 We have to meet a few more people, but we can let you know soon. 408 00:22:45,063 --> 00:22:47,864 I'll say it one more time, I'd love to join the team. 409 00:22:47,941 --> 00:22:50,448 - We'd love to have you. - Thank you. 410 00:22:59,307 --> 00:23:00,481 He's black. 411 00:23:00,558 --> 00:23:02,251 Nothing gets past you. 412 00:23:02,477 --> 00:23:05,048 He's our best candidate. I think we should hire him. 413 00:23:05,125 --> 00:23:09,344 Our list of potential subjects are 80, 90 percent white and probably racist. 414 00:23:09,421 --> 00:23:10,616 Does that mean no? 415 00:23:10,693 --> 00:23:13,306 He could incite a response that affects the study. 416 00:23:13,383 --> 00:23:14,805 That means no. 417 00:23:15,198 --> 00:23:18,207 Don't put that on his assessment. We can't be seen as racists. 418 00:23:18,284 --> 00:23:20,229 I thought our newbies would be transcribing. 419 00:23:20,306 --> 00:23:21,644 Did Brudos behave? 420 00:23:22,330 --> 00:23:23,981 He was almost pleasant. 421 00:23:24,123 --> 00:23:26,692 Seems repeat visits are important. 422 00:23:27,210 --> 00:23:30,196 Did you confide in him about your cum sock? 423 00:23:30,672 --> 00:23:33,180 Our new team member will train with transcription, 424 00:23:33,257 --> 00:23:35,954 but we're looking for someone that has operations experience 425 00:23:36,031 --> 00:23:38,247 so that we can expand our subjects' interviews. 426 00:23:38,324 --> 00:23:41,207 - Especially if Bill keeps wussing out. - Stop whining. 427 00:23:41,474 --> 00:23:42,669 How many have you seen? 428 00:23:42,746 --> 00:23:46,003 Oh, I didn't think you were interested in the process. 429 00:23:47,105 --> 00:23:49,947 Well, look, the gang's all here. Come in. 430 00:23:50,024 --> 00:23:52,783 This is Gregg Smith, he's one of your candidates. 431 00:23:52,860 --> 00:23:55,848 Gregg's done a lot of work in the field, he's a talented agent. 432 00:23:55,925 --> 00:23:59,100 His dad and I studied pre-law together at Dartmouth. 433 00:23:59,492 --> 00:24:01,602 I hope you give him a good shake. 434 00:24:09,335 --> 00:24:13,971 It's dark and all I see is his knuckles gripping the stock, 435 00:24:14,048 --> 00:24:17,493 and he's yelling, "Halt! Police! Drop the gun!" 436 00:24:17,593 --> 00:24:21,080 - I realize this guy is about to shoot me. - Whoa. 437 00:24:21,514 --> 00:24:24,959 And then I hear Mike yell, "He's an FBI agent!" 438 00:24:25,351 --> 00:24:26,919 He saved my life. 439 00:24:27,353 --> 00:24:29,612 Because I was frozen, I couldn't speak. 440 00:24:29,689 --> 00:24:32,844 Uniform lowers his shotgun, and we take off again after the driver. 441 00:24:32,921 --> 00:24:35,952 Mike catches him and nearly beats the flimflam out of him 442 00:24:36,029 --> 00:24:39,183 because he's so keyed up after watching me almost get blown away. 443 00:24:39,260 --> 00:24:42,810 I had to pull him off the guy. But anyway... 444 00:24:43,468 --> 00:24:44,543 a great partner. 445 00:24:44,620 --> 00:24:48,109 Well, you did your partner a good deed. I bet he's grateful. 446 00:24:48,186 --> 00:24:52,196 The guys call me "The Padre" and they come to confession at my desk. 447 00:24:52,273 --> 00:24:53,946 You Catholic? 448 00:24:54,547 --> 00:24:56,576 My mother's Catholic, my father's Quaker. 449 00:24:56,653 --> 00:24:58,868 - No shit. - How does that work? 450 00:24:59,052 --> 00:25:01,789 Our family joke was that we'd never run out of guilt or oats. 451 00:25:01,866 --> 00:25:03,875 Are you religious? 452 00:25:03,952 --> 00:25:05,791 - Yes, ma'am. - Dr. Carr. 453 00:25:06,184 --> 00:25:07,584 Doctor. Yes. 454 00:25:07,685 --> 00:25:11,299 I have to admit that as a kid I leaned toward the drama of the Church. 455 00:25:11,376 --> 00:25:13,489 The organ, the incense, 456 00:25:13,566 --> 00:25:15,825 Jesus rising from the dead Easter morning. 457 00:25:15,902 --> 00:25:18,181 Do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead? 458 00:25:18,258 --> 00:25:21,223 I am Christian. So is my wife. 459 00:25:21,407 --> 00:25:23,541 She's Catholic. We've already got two little girls. 460 00:25:23,618 --> 00:25:25,772 We're trying to slow-play the whole big family thing. 461 00:25:25,849 --> 00:25:27,273 Good and evil, right and wrong? 462 00:25:27,350 --> 00:25:30,359 - Are these concepts that you believe in? - Yes, I do. 463 00:25:30,436 --> 00:25:32,675 Binary thinking could hamstring you 464 00:25:32,752 --> 00:25:35,281 when it comes to critical assessment of our subjects. 465 00:25:35,358 --> 00:25:37,366 We need to understand the gray areas. 466 00:25:37,443 --> 00:25:41,392 The world is complex, I get that. I can check my judgment at the door. 467 00:25:41,469 --> 00:25:44,812 The people we work with have done things you don't even want to imagine. 468 00:25:44,889 --> 00:25:47,877 - I've read some of your cases. - It's one thing to read about it. 469 00:25:47,954 --> 00:25:51,089 It's another to sit three feet away from a guy who's delighted to tell you 470 00:25:51,166 --> 00:25:53,841 how hard it was to stick his dick in his mother's neck 471 00:25:53,918 --> 00:25:55,591 after he sawed off her head. 472 00:25:57,443 --> 00:25:59,762 What made you apply for the study? 473 00:26:00,780 --> 00:26:02,180 My daughters. 474 00:26:02,907 --> 00:26:05,434 When I hear about girls disappearing... 475 00:26:05,952 --> 00:26:09,647 This may sound corny, but I want to make the world a safer place for them. 476 00:26:09,914 --> 00:26:13,257 He's smart. He's a family guy. He knows what's at stake. 477 00:26:13,334 --> 00:26:16,594 Ugh! He's got you wrapped around his little Ivy League finger. 478 00:26:16,671 --> 00:26:18,665 - You think it's an act? - He's a mole for Shepard. 479 00:26:18,722 --> 00:26:20,083 - Come on. - I'm serious. 480 00:26:20,153 --> 00:26:22,224 When's the last time Shepard came down here? 481 00:26:22,301 --> 00:26:25,581 He's trying to make sure we're not smearing the good name of the FBI. 482 00:26:25,658 --> 00:26:27,500 Don't kid yourself. We need Shepard. 483 00:26:27,577 --> 00:26:31,045 His heart's in the right place. I think Agent Smith is earnest. 484 00:26:31,122 --> 00:26:34,278 - And that's a good thing? - What about a trial period? 485 00:26:34,355 --> 00:26:37,007 To see if we can beat the flimflam out of him? 486 00:27:48,554 --> 00:27:50,080 What's going on? 487 00:27:50,806 --> 00:27:52,416 Just seeing what he can take. 488 00:27:52,975 --> 00:27:56,253 - What do you got him on? - Bittaker and Norris. 489 00:27:57,313 --> 00:28:01,427 - Are you trying to get rid of this guy? - So listen. This thing with Roger Wade... 490 00:28:01,504 --> 00:28:04,386 - Who? - The principal at Shady Lane Elementary. 491 00:28:04,491 --> 00:28:05,687 The foot tickler? 492 00:28:05,745 --> 00:28:08,313 After I talked to the superintendent, the school board had a meeting. 493 00:28:08,370 --> 00:28:10,976 - You've got to be kidding. - They're begging us to look into it. 494 00:28:11,034 --> 00:28:13,210 - They're begging? - They're... asking. 495 00:28:13,287 --> 00:28:16,317 Our LEAA review is coming up, what are you still doing on this goose chase? 496 00:28:16,394 --> 00:28:19,466 Gregg can finish the paperwork. Let's give this a day. 497 00:28:19,524 --> 00:28:22,383 - There are meaningful signs here. - You're not dragging me into this. 498 00:28:22,441 --> 00:28:24,766 What's the point if we don't apply it to the real world? 499 00:28:24,824 --> 00:28:28,434 We're trying to save women from getting pulled into vans and cut to pieces, 500 00:28:28,511 --> 00:28:31,123 not crucify some schoolmarm who hasn't done anything. 501 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,708 Yet. Certainly our goal is to be preemptive. 502 00:28:35,101 --> 00:28:38,128 We're the FBI, Holden. That is not our goal. 503 00:28:38,521 --> 00:28:39,921 Yet. 504 00:28:51,909 --> 00:28:53,309 So... 505 00:28:54,453 --> 00:28:56,271 still want this job? 506 00:28:56,914 --> 00:29:00,111 The students certainly don't complain. They enjoy the contact. 507 00:29:00,195 --> 00:29:02,934 Yes, but as you said to me when I was here before, 508 00:29:02,992 --> 00:29:04,718 it might be best for parents to determine... 509 00:29:04,776 --> 00:29:06,514 We are a community. 510 00:29:06,591 --> 00:29:08,849 And I want the children to know that. 511 00:29:08,926 --> 00:29:10,538 In the five years that I've been here, 512 00:29:10,615 --> 00:29:13,187 their test scores have gone up almost 30 percent. 513 00:29:13,264 --> 00:29:15,376 And it's not because I'm a strict disciplinarian, 514 00:29:15,453 --> 00:29:18,377 or I pile on the homework, or I cut recess. 515 00:29:18,561 --> 00:29:22,673 It is because I apply a personal touch. 516 00:29:22,773 --> 00:29:25,553 - These children matter to me. - That is quite clear. 517 00:29:25,630 --> 00:29:28,953 We have special games, sports, 518 00:29:29,030 --> 00:29:31,767 art projects, teamwork activities. 519 00:29:31,844 --> 00:29:34,583 I am teaching happiness. 520 00:29:34,660 --> 00:29:37,896 With all of that, why the need to tickle? 521 00:29:38,331 --> 00:29:40,649 All right, let me give you an example. 522 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,050 We had this child, six years old, 523 00:29:43,127 --> 00:29:45,531 who said he sprained his ankle playing kickball 524 00:29:45,608 --> 00:29:47,450 and didn't want to go to class. 525 00:29:47,527 --> 00:29:50,766 The nurse calls me down because his ankle is not swollen, 526 00:29:50,843 --> 00:29:52,622 but he's still claiming that it hurts. 527 00:29:52,699 --> 00:29:56,165 Now... I don't want to call him a liar. 528 00:29:56,682 --> 00:29:59,710 So, I wiggle his big toe. 529 00:30:00,019 --> 00:30:02,629 Does it hurt when this little piggy goes to market? 530 00:30:03,147 --> 00:30:06,907 How about when this little piggy stays home? He smiles. 531 00:30:06,984 --> 00:30:09,513 He says that it tickles. So I tickle his feet. 532 00:30:09,590 --> 00:30:12,183 The next thing I know, he's laughing. 533 00:30:12,260 --> 00:30:15,165 He's happy, he goes back to class. 534 00:30:15,242 --> 00:30:17,960 - Did you also give him a nickel? - I'm sure I did. 535 00:30:18,037 --> 00:30:21,130 So the next time he goes to the store, he can get himself... 536 00:30:21,207 --> 00:30:24,111 - What can you get for a nickel these days? - A piece of bubble gum? 537 00:30:24,188 --> 00:30:25,611 Exactly. 538 00:30:26,379 --> 00:30:29,499 Agent Ford, you're blowing this out of proportion. 539 00:30:29,632 --> 00:30:31,744 We need to work on your interview technique. 540 00:30:31,821 --> 00:30:34,912 - Sorry, was I supposed to be hard on him? - You shouldn't team up. 541 00:30:35,888 --> 00:30:38,542 Did you think that "piggy goes to market" stuff was weird? 542 00:30:38,619 --> 00:30:40,920 Oh, my kids love "Piggy Goes to the Market." 543 00:30:40,997 --> 00:30:44,254 - Yeah, your kids love it from you. - A tickle's a tickle. 544 00:30:45,690 --> 00:30:48,050 Maybe that's all it is, but... 545 00:30:48,859 --> 00:30:53,764 if there is a sexual angle, Roger would no doubt be good at hiding it. 546 00:30:54,281 --> 00:30:56,519 When Kemper went in for his last psychiatric evaluation, 547 00:30:56,596 --> 00:31:00,187 he had a 15-year-old girl's head in the trunk of his car. 548 00:31:00,663 --> 00:31:03,422 It gave him a thrill to persuade the committee successfully 549 00:31:03,499 --> 00:31:05,361 that he was over his psychological problems, 550 00:31:05,438 --> 00:31:07,402 knowing that he had a trophy outside. 551 00:31:08,087 --> 00:31:09,532 Isn't that kind of extreme? 552 00:31:09,609 --> 00:31:12,366 You get the idea. 553 00:31:15,428 --> 00:31:18,937 I'm glad Janet finally did something. Someone had to. 554 00:31:19,014 --> 00:31:21,168 So you don't approve of Roger's behavior? 555 00:31:21,245 --> 00:31:24,294 I've always thought that tickling was bizarre enough, 556 00:31:24,395 --> 00:31:26,111 but I get parents coming to me, 557 00:31:26,188 --> 00:31:28,843 asking why their children suddenly have pocket change. 558 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:30,532 How long has this gone on for? 559 00:31:30,609 --> 00:31:32,493 I've only been at Shady Lane two years. 560 00:31:32,570 --> 00:31:34,662 It sounds like it goes back further than that. 561 00:31:34,739 --> 00:31:37,184 Why are parents complaining to you? Why not go to Roger? 562 00:31:37,261 --> 00:31:41,645 He brushes them off, he's unapologetic, and he's a big deal around here. 563 00:31:41,912 --> 00:31:44,380 I agreed to meet with you so I could share my thoughts, 564 00:31:44,457 --> 00:31:46,235 but I hope it doesn't get back to him. 565 00:31:46,312 --> 00:31:48,550 - You think he'd retaliate? - I don't know. 566 00:31:48,627 --> 00:31:51,407 It's a small school, everyone seems to know about the tickling. 567 00:31:51,484 --> 00:31:53,784 How do the children respond to his tickling? 568 00:31:53,861 --> 00:31:55,057 They endure it. 569 00:31:55,134 --> 00:31:57,351 They know they're going to get paid. 570 00:31:57,428 --> 00:31:59,290 I have students coming back from his office, 571 00:31:59,367 --> 00:32:00,979 showing off their earnings. 572 00:32:01,056 --> 00:32:03,377 What did you think of Roger when you first came here, 573 00:32:03,454 --> 00:32:05,419 before you knew about this? 574 00:32:06,020 --> 00:32:07,921 I thought he was smug. 575 00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:10,885 I transferred because I heard how great this place is, 576 00:32:10,962 --> 00:32:13,387 but then that's all he talks about. 577 00:32:13,464 --> 00:32:15,661 He really toots his own horn. 578 00:32:15,738 --> 00:32:18,122 The teachers are supposed to be cheerleaders. 579 00:32:18,199 --> 00:32:21,312 And I've always been uncomfortable with how he handles the children. 580 00:32:21,389 --> 00:32:23,964 - What do you mean? - He's always fussing over them. 581 00:32:24,022 --> 00:32:25,065 "Fussing"? 582 00:32:25,142 --> 00:32:28,095 Well, it's always touchy-touchy and cutesey-cutesey. 583 00:32:29,126 --> 00:32:31,864 Mrs. Clark, could you make a list of parents and teachers 584 00:32:31,941 --> 00:32:33,697 that feel the same way? 585 00:32:34,048 --> 00:32:35,451 We're meeting with a handful, 586 00:32:35,528 --> 00:32:38,452 but we'd like to get a sense of the whole picture. 587 00:32:39,887 --> 00:32:41,123 Is something wrong? 588 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,625 I don't want a witch hunt. I'm not vindictive. 589 00:32:44,767 --> 00:32:46,627 I just wish he'd listen. 590 00:32:46,769 --> 00:32:48,297 The students love Roger. 591 00:32:48,374 --> 00:32:51,801 When he visits the class, I know it's going to be an easier day. 592 00:32:51,878 --> 00:32:55,159 He can turn a moody room into an eager one just by walking in. 593 00:32:55,236 --> 00:32:56,931 You've heard about the tickling? 594 00:32:57,008 --> 00:32:58,082 Of course. 595 00:32:58,140 --> 00:33:00,518 When my kids come back from his office, they seem happy. 596 00:33:00,595 --> 00:33:01,769 What do you think about it? 597 00:33:01,846 --> 00:33:03,185 It's wonderful. 598 00:33:03,285 --> 00:33:05,127 He turns punishment into play. 599 00:33:05,204 --> 00:33:07,171 He makes it a positive experience. 600 00:33:07,248 --> 00:33:10,694 - Nothing could be better for them. - Have you had any parent complaints? 601 00:33:10,771 --> 00:33:14,657 The parents I've talked to are thrilled. Except about property taxes. 602 00:33:14,734 --> 00:33:17,616 Shady Lane has made this a desirable neighborhood. 603 00:33:17,967 --> 00:33:19,868 What do you think of Janet Ebner? 604 00:33:20,594 --> 00:33:24,498 Well, I don't like to speak ill of people, but she's a busybody. 605 00:33:24,849 --> 00:33:26,752 What do you think of Mrs. Clark? 606 00:33:26,829 --> 00:33:28,167 She's a crab. 607 00:33:29,603 --> 00:33:32,381 Okay. I think that's all we need. 608 00:33:33,691 --> 00:33:35,447 - Thank you for talking with us. - Thank you. 609 00:33:35,504 --> 00:33:37,844 - So nice to meet you. - Nice to meet you. 610 00:33:39,488 --> 00:33:42,724 He came home from Steve's house and his tongue was blue. 611 00:33:42,825 --> 00:33:46,251 It's not like Steve's mom to give him candy, so I questioned him. 612 00:33:46,328 --> 00:33:50,067 Found out they walked to the corner store without asking, and bought Pop Rocks. 613 00:33:50,144 --> 00:33:51,673 Boys will be boys. 614 00:33:51,750 --> 00:33:53,360 That's not the point. 615 00:33:54,295 --> 00:33:59,241 We're, uh, in discussions about how much leeway Jason is allowed at this age. 616 00:33:59,466 --> 00:34:03,560 Anyway, he's evasive when I ask him where he got the money. 617 00:34:03,637 --> 00:34:07,585 So, I call Steve's mom. She's having the same conversation with her son. 618 00:34:07,662 --> 00:34:09,837 Turns out they got it from Roger. 619 00:34:09,914 --> 00:34:11,193 The principal... 620 00:34:11,270 --> 00:34:13,549 giving them money without telling the parents. 621 00:34:13,626 --> 00:34:18,385 But then we find out, and this is why Jason wouldn't tell me in the first place, 622 00:34:18,525 --> 00:34:20,727 he and Steve were fighting on the playground... 623 00:34:20,785 --> 00:34:21,952 They were kicking mud at each other, 624 00:34:22,009 --> 00:34:24,180 - they weren't fighting. - They were fighting, 625 00:34:24,238 --> 00:34:26,157 they got sent to Roger's office. 626 00:34:26,285 --> 00:34:29,940 He seats them side by side, makes them take off their shoes and socks, 627 00:34:30,017 --> 00:34:32,714 and does this double tickling thing. 628 00:34:32,791 --> 00:34:34,883 Was Jason uncomfortable with the tickling? 629 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,323 I don't think Jason understood that it was inappropriate. 630 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,576 No, he wasn't uncomfortable. The boys made up again, all buddy-buddy. 631 00:34:40,653 --> 00:34:43,327 But they're nine-year-olds. Almost ten. 632 00:34:43,427 --> 00:34:46,040 I could see it if they were toddlers, if this was preschool. 633 00:34:46,117 --> 00:34:47,521 And then there's the money. 634 00:34:47,598 --> 00:34:50,169 - And you went to Roger? - Yeah. We sat down with him. 635 00:34:50,246 --> 00:34:52,588 He made it sound like we were perverts for even asking. 636 00:34:52,665 --> 00:34:57,155 How dare we deny our boy the, um, affection that he provides? 637 00:34:57,232 --> 00:35:00,137 Something like that. I came away with the strangest feeling. 638 00:35:00,214 --> 00:35:03,537 Yeah, I mean, if you don't want people touching your kid... 639 00:35:03,614 --> 00:35:05,976 A middle-aged man touching your child's feet. 640 00:35:06,053 --> 00:35:08,270 You should be able to tell them stop. 641 00:35:08,347 --> 00:35:09,730 Did you ask him to stop? 642 00:35:09,807 --> 00:35:13,106 - Absolutely. And he said... - Oh, yeah, listen to this. 643 00:35:13,749 --> 00:35:17,009 "My covenant is not with you, it's with your son." 644 00:35:17,086 --> 00:35:19,114 "Covenant"? He used that word? 645 00:35:19,191 --> 00:35:20,387 Yes. 646 00:35:20,464 --> 00:35:21,597 Is he religious? 647 00:35:21,674 --> 00:35:23,911 - I don't know. - It's an odd choice. 648 00:35:23,988 --> 00:35:25,535 The whole thing is odd. 649 00:35:27,846 --> 00:35:29,998 What do you think should be done about him? 650 00:35:30,766 --> 00:35:32,709 Well, I thought about suing. 651 00:35:32,786 --> 00:35:35,005 We want to protect Jason, 652 00:35:35,082 --> 00:35:36,880 but we aren't sure. 653 00:35:37,106 --> 00:35:40,198 And he wasn't traumatized. I mean, quite the opposite. 654 00:35:40,275 --> 00:35:43,934 We thought you might have suggestions, because we don't know what to do. 655 00:35:44,031 --> 00:35:45,122 Yeah, we don't know. 656 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,309 That's the third set of parents who don't like it. 657 00:35:47,386 --> 00:35:49,728 - I guess they should have a say. - I think they should. 658 00:35:49,805 --> 00:35:52,085 But is there anything going on? Is Roger dangerous? 659 00:35:52,162 --> 00:35:54,149 Everyone seems to agree the children don't mind. 660 00:35:54,226 --> 00:35:55,422 What about when one does? 661 00:35:55,499 --> 00:35:57,903 Brudos kept his urges in check until something triggered him. 662 00:35:57,980 --> 00:35:59,718 After that, everything escalated. 663 00:35:59,795 --> 00:36:02,533 - What if a kid decides to resist Roger? - I read the Brudos files. 664 00:36:02,610 --> 00:36:05,995 - He had a history of offenses. - It's a leap, but there is a correlation. 665 00:36:06,072 --> 00:36:09,540 I don't think Roger can help himself any more than Brudos could stop killing. 666 00:36:09,617 --> 00:36:14,000 In fact, giving them money might encourage them to go to his office for "punishment." 667 00:36:14,184 --> 00:36:16,213 - Why don't we ask him to stop? - People have. 668 00:36:16,290 --> 00:36:19,339 Let's tell him then. We're the fucking FBI. 669 00:36:37,583 --> 00:36:42,112 Let's see if Mrs. Lane can come by in the morning, before school. 670 00:36:42,337 --> 00:36:45,451 It's her first year and I think she's having some trouble 671 00:36:45,528 --> 00:36:46,869 managing her students. 672 00:36:46,946 --> 00:36:48,660 Mr. Wade, can we talk? 673 00:36:49,428 --> 00:36:50,936 And, um, let's make a note 674 00:36:51,013 --> 00:36:53,493 - I've signed off on the lesson plan... - In private? 675 00:36:55,476 --> 00:36:56,877 Thank you. 676 00:37:04,526 --> 00:37:06,430 After speaking with parents and teachers, 677 00:37:06,507 --> 00:37:09,111 we're advising you to stop touching the children. 678 00:37:09,169 --> 00:37:10,205 Advising me? 679 00:37:10,282 --> 00:37:14,146 It's a trivial activity. Simply stopping will satisfy everyone. 680 00:37:14,223 --> 00:37:15,627 It is not trivial. 681 00:37:15,704 --> 00:37:18,088 Don't make me sound like some stranger in a raincoat. 682 00:37:18,146 --> 00:37:19,880 We're here at the request of the superintendent. 683 00:37:19,937 --> 00:37:21,275 Really? 684 00:37:21,794 --> 00:37:25,574 The superintendent of the schools sent the FBI to advise me 685 00:37:25,651 --> 00:37:27,991 to stop tickling children? 686 00:37:29,009 --> 00:37:30,746 I have been a principal for 15 years. 687 00:37:30,823 --> 00:37:35,040 There hasn't been a shadow on my record until now. How dare you. 688 00:37:35,349 --> 00:37:40,110 How dare you accuse me of being inappropriate with my own students. 689 00:37:40,187 --> 00:37:42,466 We're not accusing you. Some people are uncomfortable. 690 00:37:42,543 --> 00:37:43,882 You are! 691 00:37:44,108 --> 00:37:46,408 You are uncomfortable, Agent Ford. Why is that? 692 00:37:46,485 --> 00:37:49,044 When I was here for Career Day, you asked me to edit my speech. 693 00:37:49,102 --> 00:37:52,142 You were worried how it would affect the teachers and students. So I did. 694 00:37:52,219 --> 00:37:54,416 I heard your concerns, I followed your advice. 695 00:37:54,493 --> 00:37:58,273 I am advising you to hear the concerns of your teachers and your school board... 696 00:37:58,350 --> 00:38:02,150 You didn't know what the hell you were doing that day. You still don't. 697 00:38:02,251 --> 00:38:04,404 "Deviant." "Torture." "Mutilation." 698 00:38:04,481 --> 00:38:07,741 That is your world, and it has made you paranoid. 699 00:38:07,818 --> 00:38:10,450 That is not my school. 700 00:38:12,636 --> 00:38:14,204 Mr. Wade. 701 00:38:14,471 --> 00:38:17,040 I am telling you this for your own good. 702 00:38:18,725 --> 00:38:21,463 We all have to choose between trust and fear. 703 00:38:21,540 --> 00:38:23,403 If you ever do have children, 704 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,551 I hope that you'll think long and hard about how you want to raise them. 705 00:38:31,822 --> 00:38:33,640 Did we do the right thing? 706 00:38:34,783 --> 00:38:36,726 Is this a federal issue? 707 00:38:57,306 --> 00:38:58,563 Hey. 708 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,140 You okay? 709 00:39:02,144 --> 00:39:04,421 - What are you doing? - Studying. 710 00:39:05,321 --> 00:39:06,383 Can I come in? 711 00:39:06,460 --> 00:39:08,008 I really need to study. 712 00:39:08,275 --> 00:39:09,676 Okay. 713 00:39:11,278 --> 00:39:14,681 - You really have to leave me alone. - I will. I promise. 714 00:39:14,990 --> 00:39:17,142 You gotta promise-promise. 715 00:40:00,285 --> 00:40:01,685 What are you reading? 716 00:40:03,330 --> 00:40:06,650 The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life. 717 00:40:09,211 --> 00:40:11,780 - Sounds interesting. - It is interesting. 718 00:40:13,548 --> 00:40:14,910 - What's it about? - Please. 719 00:40:14,987 --> 00:40:17,535 You promised and I really have to finish this. 720 00:40:21,515 --> 00:40:24,084 It could help to describe what you're learning. 721 00:40:27,312 --> 00:40:28,528 Okay. 722 00:40:28,605 --> 00:40:30,363 It's by Erving Goffman. 723 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,657 He posits that life is like theater. 724 00:40:32,734 --> 00:40:35,679 We tailor ourselves to fit the parts that we're playing. 725 00:40:36,785 --> 00:40:37,871 Meaning? 726 00:40:37,948 --> 00:40:41,061 For instance, there's the expectation that girls should be nice, 727 00:40:41,138 --> 00:40:43,210 - that they should smile. - Okay. 728 00:40:43,287 --> 00:40:47,857 You know, I once tried not smiling for a day, and it was really weird. 729 00:40:48,750 --> 00:40:51,009 Why? You're not much of a smiler. 730 00:40:51,086 --> 00:40:54,783 Even so, it made me feel really odd and it freaked people out. 731 00:40:54,860 --> 00:40:57,265 Strangers kept asking, "Are you okay?" 732 00:40:57,342 --> 00:41:01,037 - Did you want to smile? - No. Not once I realized what I was doing. 733 00:41:01,179 --> 00:41:04,958 Goffman says we wear these masks to make everyone else comfortable. 734 00:41:05,684 --> 00:41:06,733 Like you and your suits. 735 00:41:06,810 --> 00:41:08,547 We're not talking about my clothes again. 736 00:41:08,624 --> 00:41:11,508 Your suit is your uniform you wear to fit in at Quantico. 737 00:41:11,585 --> 00:41:14,616 - I don't want to fit in. - Everyone is trying to fit in. 738 00:41:14,693 --> 00:41:16,722 Guess that explains your hippie thing, too. 739 00:41:16,799 --> 00:41:18,703 My "hippie" thing? 740 00:41:18,780 --> 00:41:21,476 Your peasant tops, long hair, bracelets, leather sandals. 741 00:41:21,553 --> 00:41:24,146 - Helps you assimilate on campus. - Right. 742 00:41:24,223 --> 00:41:25,585 It's exactly the same. 743 00:41:25,662 --> 00:41:27,566 What would you wear if no one were looking? 744 00:41:27,643 --> 00:41:30,358 Probably nothing. What about you? 745 00:41:31,418 --> 00:41:34,487 - I'd wear my suit. - So sad. 746 00:41:36,465 --> 00:41:39,826 I wonder if that's why everyone's so confused about Roger. 747 00:41:41,178 --> 00:41:45,417 He's taking an activity normally reserved for family members at home 748 00:41:45,494 --> 00:41:48,170 and applying it to the wrong environment. 749 00:41:48,247 --> 00:41:49,838 I think that's different. 750 00:41:49,915 --> 00:41:51,945 Look, I can't do this right now. 751 00:41:52,022 --> 00:41:54,531 I have to finish because it's my semester project. 752 00:41:54,608 --> 00:41:57,721 We're doing this thing tomorrow night. Come, if you're interested. 753 00:41:57,798 --> 00:41:59,890 Blacking out a room in the Sociology building 754 00:41:59,967 --> 00:42:03,206 so people can interact without actually being able to see each other. 755 00:42:03,283 --> 00:42:05,270 My partner's making up a questionnaire for them 756 00:42:05,347 --> 00:42:08,104 to describe who they think they've met. 757 00:42:08,455 --> 00:42:09,856 Your partner? 758 00:42:10,499 --> 00:42:12,650 Yeah. Patrick. 759 00:42:14,252 --> 00:42:15,820 I see. 760 00:42:16,213 --> 00:42:17,262 Were you assigned? 761 00:42:17,339 --> 00:42:19,701 Well, we're both working on this Goffman book. 762 00:42:19,778 --> 00:42:21,868 Oh, so you just have mutual interests. 763 00:42:21,968 --> 00:42:23,059 I guess so. 764 00:42:23,136 --> 00:42:24,746 Certainly seems like it. 765 00:42:26,014 --> 00:42:28,794 Is this you not smiling as part of your experiment or... 766 00:42:28,871 --> 00:42:32,003 No, this is just me not smiling. 767 00:42:32,979 --> 00:42:34,380 Okay. 768 00:42:42,030 --> 00:42:43,473 Good morning. 769 00:42:43,990 --> 00:42:45,391 Morning. 770 00:42:46,576 --> 00:42:48,144 Shepard wants to see you. 771 00:42:49,121 --> 00:42:50,337 About what? 772 00:42:50,414 --> 00:42:52,148 Your little field trip. 773 00:42:55,293 --> 00:42:56,693 How does he know? 774 00:43:14,855 --> 00:43:17,757 Ah. Agent Ford. 775 00:43:24,865 --> 00:43:27,916 The superintendent asked me to take a look at the situation. 776 00:43:27,993 --> 00:43:31,086 And you said, "Oh, yeah, this is exactly what we do here at the FBI." 777 00:43:31,163 --> 00:43:33,733 I just thought with the correlations to the Brudos case... 778 00:43:33,810 --> 00:43:35,757 - Are you obsessed with feet? - No, sir. 779 00:43:35,834 --> 00:43:38,718 Because that is the only connection I can see. It is a thin one. 780 00:43:38,795 --> 00:43:41,116 There were parents and teachers who were concerned. 781 00:43:41,193 --> 00:43:42,889 I know the whole damn story. 782 00:43:42,966 --> 00:43:44,870 We bumped into each other in the cafeteria. 783 00:43:44,947 --> 00:43:48,144 This is not about how I know, it is about what the hell were you thinking? 784 00:43:48,221 --> 00:43:51,293 Sir, I thought I would see if the things we're discovering in the interviews 785 00:43:51,370 --> 00:43:53,108 could apply to real-life situations. 786 00:43:53,185 --> 00:43:56,694 The Bureau does not do that. We do not get involved until a crime is committed 787 00:43:56,771 --> 00:43:58,592 and has risen to the level of our radar. 788 00:43:58,669 --> 00:44:02,993 With all due respect, we've helped local law enforcement solve two murder cases now. 789 00:44:03,051 --> 00:44:05,740 - You served in an advisory capacity... - We interviewed suspects. 790 00:44:05,798 --> 00:44:07,601 On cases where there were actual crimes. 791 00:44:07,678 --> 00:44:09,541 I spent a single day on Roger Wade. 792 00:44:09,618 --> 00:44:12,481 I was worried about children. I had to follow my intuition. 793 00:44:12,558 --> 00:44:14,564 - Your what? - Mm... 794 00:44:16,583 --> 00:44:19,029 My intuition started this. I wanted to interview Kemper. 795 00:44:19,106 --> 00:44:21,469 Without me, there would be no study, no funding. 796 00:44:21,546 --> 00:44:24,993 So now you know everything, is that it? Now you're Superman, with X-ray vision? 797 00:44:25,070 --> 00:44:27,329 No, but I should be allowed a day to... 798 00:44:27,406 --> 00:44:30,496 Predict if someone might commit a crime? 799 00:44:31,306 --> 00:44:33,499 Who are you, the fucking thought police? 800 00:44:35,685 --> 00:44:37,068 Thank you both. 801 00:44:37,145 --> 00:44:38,882 Agent Smith, in your new BSU position, 802 00:44:38,959 --> 00:44:41,857 the last thing you should be following is Agent Ford's intuition. 803 00:44:57,832 --> 00:45:00,300 Surprise, surprise, he had my ass. 804 00:45:00,377 --> 00:45:02,093 - You handed it to him. - Thanks, Bill. 805 00:45:02,170 --> 00:45:04,991 - Don't know what you were thinking. - Apparently, no one does. 806 00:45:05,068 --> 00:45:07,867 We'd like you to ask before you do something like that again. 807 00:45:08,385 --> 00:45:10,768 - What? - Your behavior reflects on us. 808 00:45:10,845 --> 00:45:14,355 You cannot use the study as justification to launch personal campaigns. 809 00:45:14,432 --> 00:45:16,878 - Is that what you think I'm doing? - I really don't know. 810 00:45:16,955 --> 00:45:20,048 I can't imagine why you would go after a respected school principal 811 00:45:20,125 --> 00:45:21,529 with no history of abuse. 812 00:45:21,606 --> 00:45:24,490 Because you weren't there. Even Gregg saw something wasn't right. 813 00:45:24,567 --> 00:45:26,429 It's an incorrect application of the concepts 814 00:45:26,506 --> 00:45:27,722 that I'm trying to teach you. 815 00:45:27,799 --> 00:45:31,057 - This has nothing to do with concepts. - She's right, Holden. 816 00:45:31,533 --> 00:45:34,459 What if some guy were tickling Brian's feet? 817 00:45:34,536 --> 00:45:38,171 - Don't bring my kid into this. - Not just some guy, but a guy in power, 818 00:45:38,248 --> 00:45:40,673 the head of the school where he will be for years. 819 00:45:40,750 --> 00:45:43,196 He not only tickles, but gives money for putting up with it. 820 00:45:43,273 --> 00:45:45,261 Do not use my family as an example. 821 00:45:45,338 --> 00:45:48,473 You ask him to stop, he won't. You go to the police, they blow it off. 822 00:45:48,550 --> 00:45:51,434 So it looks like Brian is going to get paid to get his feet tickled, 823 00:45:51,511 --> 00:45:53,915 and who knows what else, and there's nothing you can do. 824 00:45:53,992 --> 00:45:56,626 I'd tell him to take his fucking hands off my kid, 825 00:45:56,703 --> 00:45:59,754 just like I'm telling you to stop using him as an excuse 826 00:45:59,831 --> 00:46:01,713 for your unprofessional behavior. 827 00:46:58,536 --> 00:47:02,398 ♪♪ Indistinct chatter on tape recorders playing... 828 00:47:04,084 --> 00:47:08,321 I heard you could make yourself start lucid dreaming, so I got this book. 829 00:47:15,095 --> 00:47:16,496 Door! 830 00:47:31,361 --> 00:47:35,306 - ...sort of self-conscious. - I'm just not sure the answer's... 831 00:48:18,366 --> 00:48:19,767 Come on, guys. 832 00:48:22,537 --> 00:48:24,647 Can you close the door, please? 833 00:48:25,373 --> 00:48:27,108 Seriously, man? 834 00:49:51,543 --> 00:49:53,134 Behavioral Science. 835 00:49:53,211 --> 00:49:56,179 - Holden, this is Dan Cobb with the VEA. - Yes, Dan. 836 00:49:56,256 --> 00:49:59,911 I'm sorry to bother you this early, but the school board will be meeting today 837 00:49:59,988 --> 00:50:02,268 to make their decision regarding Roger Wade. 838 00:50:02,345 --> 00:50:03,498 What kind of decision? 839 00:50:03,575 --> 00:50:06,709 Well, we're thinking about letting him go. 840 00:50:06,786 --> 00:50:07,607 I see. 841 00:50:07,684 --> 00:50:11,003 We'd like to know if this would be in line with your recommendation. 842 00:50:11,271 --> 00:50:13,299 I really can't make a recommendation. 843 00:50:13,376 --> 00:50:14,739 Yeah, I get that. 844 00:50:14,816 --> 00:50:17,343 To be honest, we've been going in circles. 845 00:50:17,569 --> 00:50:20,431 What troubles me is I believe he's developed a compulsion 846 00:50:20,508 --> 00:50:22,413 that he's justifying as a choice. 847 00:50:22,490 --> 00:50:26,312 Do you believe it's possible he can do something... inappropriate? 848 00:50:26,389 --> 00:50:27,728 Well... 849 00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,610 I can't say that his behavior wouldn't escalate to something more serious. 850 00:50:32,687 --> 00:50:34,550 Right. I see. 851 00:50:34,627 --> 00:50:38,030 Well, it sounds like we should be erring on the side of caution. 852 00:50:40,341 --> 00:50:41,390 I understand. 853 00:50:41,467 --> 00:50:43,935 Okay. Listen, thanks for your time.